The Marijuana Debate

Subject: The Marijuana Debate Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:57 am

"THE MARIJUANA DEBATE"
by Youngstown Renegade

What is it about marijuana that gets people's feathers all ruffled up? Could it be the fact that smoking it causes mind altering effects? Could it simply be the fact that we smoke it because any smoker can tell you that smoking is probably a reason alone for the mass stupidity to hate something. I think it's all of the above, which I have to be honest makes me laugh my ass off because not too many people have a problem with alcohol but those same people are the ones spouting, "Weed is bad. Weed is bad." Now I'm not saying I do or don't use "weed" but I will say I have.....And I'm forced to still wonder what the fuck the problem is.....I've been high on numerous occasions and for most people it is a very calm and relaxed high....The bottom line here is this...."Why the fuck is it any of your business?" The only person who should have a say in your life is you, unless you're at work in that case your boss is in charge of you, or you're under 18, in which case your parents are in charge of you......Some argue that legalization would cause utter chaos.....I highly doubt that....We have to treat this just like alcohol....legalize it, then set boundaries, and when I say boundaries I mean no smoking weed at work....Common Sense people......You have to be 18 to purchase it (although the 18/21 rule is for another article)....The big problem here is that it had already been illegal and we have been brainwashed in a sense into believing that this is so dangerous to our current state of life...Marijuana funds all terrorism...Bullshit....Marijuana funds the dope dealer down the street so he can get a 32 inch plasma instead of the 22 inch plasma, and if you legalize it...he's got the 22 instead of the 32 because you just cut his biggest sale....now only minors will ileagaly buy weed....kinda like alcohol and cigarettes...You are taking out a large amount of the orgainized crime and gang crime over marijuana this way....there will always be but you can cut it exponentialy.....Also the ads that tell you if you smoke weed you will become a loser and a follower for sure and you will never succeed....HORSE SHIT....plenty of people smoke weed and live fuller more productive lives than people who don't and vice versa....Bottom line...it's no different from alcohol....in fact it's like an alcohol cigarette...something you smoke that fucks you up for a little bit....and I'll argue any day that a marijuana buzz is safer than an alcohol buzz....Bottom line here...the majority of American's have been brainwashed against marijuana when not only is it nowhere near as bad as it's made out to be, but it would be good for the economy, especially now when the economy is as fucked as it is....

Thoughts and opinions are welcome and you can also vote in the attached poll.....thank you

Subject: Re: The Marijuana Debate Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:59 am

I think my opinion is pretty clear here but I know this will incite some good debate....me and metro debate this often...he stands on the illegal side while I stand on the legal side...I respect his opinion because he comes at me with an educated and rational POV...but I still can't agree with him....hope he gets in on this debate here....

Subject: Re: The Marijuana Debate Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:23 am

It sure as hell is nowhere near as bad as alcohol.
Legalize it, tax it and make room in jail for the real bad guys.

Subject: Re: The Marijuana Debate Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:26 am

Miamivette wrote:: It sure as hell is nowhere near as bad as alcohol.
Legalize it, tax it and make room in jail for the real bad guys.

THANK YOU

Subject: I vote no Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:53 am

I voted no because dealing with the drug on a regular basis I'm seen more harm come from it than good. Not so much physical harm but social harm. In its illegal state or even tolerated state in the sixties it has lead to litlle productivity from society (although there are exceptions to the rule it still hasn't made that big of a positive contribution.) As far as it bringing out the best in some....I don't see the sense in relying on a plant to do your best work or think your best thoughts....anyone who actually believes that they are better with it lacks self-esteem, lacks self confidence, and most of all self motivation. Normally it's associated with other crime (not so much the largest contributing factor but is closely associated with other crime) such as rape, robbery, and murder (known from experience). Is alcohol a close associate with crime....alot of times yes. Its been my belief that we as a society are not ready for the responsibility that comes with marijuana. Until we can improve educationally, and prove we can be trusted with another inhibitor blocker (like alcohol) and we're on the edge with even that. I don't see much good coming of it other than it'd boost the economy. I'd be for it if I could see it be the contributor to a more productive society. Could that happen? I think it can. Could I change my stance? Absolutley. Right now I don't see that it can even help effect positive change. That's what the focus should be can this help effect any other positive change other than fattening the national wallet?

Subject: Re: The Marijuana Debate Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:00 am

Yea, but just because it "doesn't affect positive change" people shouldn't be given the freedom to choose?....I'm sorry, I can't grasp that...cell phones, alcohol, cigarettes, soda, etc...these things don't affect positive change so we shouldn't have them...?....We're gonna have to deal with it weather it's legal or not, so wouldn't it be easier to legalize it...?

Subject: Re: The Marijuana Debate Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:06 pm

I voted to legalize it, but what I'd really like to do is decriminalize it instead. Just like alcohol. Set up a DUI for it; stuff like that.

Subject: Re: The Marijuana Debate Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:42 pm

Worx4Me wrote:: I voted to legalize it, but what I'd really like to do is decriminalize it instead. Just like alcohol. Set up a DUI for it; stuff like that.

Well you wouldn't have to worry about aggressive driving..... lol!

Subject: Re: The Marijuana Debate Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:00 pm

Miamivette wrote:

Worx4Me wrote:: I voted to legalize it, but what I'd really like to do is decriminalize it instead. Just like alcohol. Set up a DUI for it; stuff like that.

Well you wouldn't have to worry about aggressive driving..... lol!

Aint that the truth... lol!

Subject: Re: The Marijuana Debate Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:01 pm

Worx4Me wrote:: I voted to legalize it, but what I'd really like to do is decriminalize it instead. Just like alcohol. Set up a DUI for it; stuff like that.

That's probably the best bet and that's more along the lines of where I was headed with this...

Subject: Re: The Marijuana Debate Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:35 am

Worx4Me wrote:: I voted to legalize it, but what I'd really like to do is decriminalize it instead. Just like alcohol. Set up a DUI for it; stuff like that.

There are DUI laws for it. We lock people up for it just as much as we do with alcohol. DUI stands for Driving Under the Infuence.....and then the police fill in the blank. You only hear about the alcohol arrests but plenty are made for dope too. As far as aggressive driving is concerned.....good point....but what about reckless driving. That's where it comes in for the arrest. Most that we make that involve marijuana involve the careless mistakes made while being under the influence.

Subject: Re: The Marijuana Debate Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:37 am

metrocop0826 wrote:

Worx4Me wrote:: I voted to legalize it, but what I'd really like to do is decriminalize it instead. Just like alcohol. Set up a DUI for it; stuff like that.

There are DUI laws for it. We lock people up for it just as much as we do with alcohol. DUI stands for Driving Under the Infuence.....and then the police fill in the blank. You only hear about the alcohol arrests but plenty are made for dope too. As far as aggressive driving is concerned.....good point....but what about reckless driving. That's where it comes in for the arrest. Most that we make that involve marijuana involve the careless mistakes made while being under the influence.

See man, it's just like any other intoxicant....it should be legal, but we should "SLIGHTLY" limit where you can and can't use it..just like alcohol...The parallel between the two is staggering...

Subject: Even our Freedoms have to be governed. Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:50 am

YoungstownRenegade wrote:: Yea, but just because it "doesn't affect positive change" people shouldn't be given the freedom to choose?....I'm sorry, I can't grasp that...cell phones, alcohol, cigarettes, soda, etc...these things don't affect positive change so we shouldn't have them...?....We're gonna have to deal with it weather it's legal or not, so wouldn't it be easier to legalize it...?

I say this all the time. Freedoms are privilages that are only lost to irresponsibility and ignorance. We as Americans sometimes do not know what to do with freedom. I see the behavior that pot causes and it's not like it makes people aggressive (unless it's laced) but it makes people apethetic. Apethy is more dangerous than aggression alot of times. That's the real harm in it. We as a human race could be contolled without laws and people did the right thing all the time than there would be no need for laws. But since we shown for thousands of years we can't be trusted with certain freedoms and we've failed to make hard decisions. Now since we see people being carefree and apethetic under the influence of marijuana we should really look before we leap when it concerns marijuana. Just like alcohol. The reason why prohibition ended really was because the government could not stop the mafia from selling alcohol. So we gave up and accepted failure. Until things start improving like the economy and education primarily....we need not worry about taking away inhibitons we need a nation of focused and motivated persons to get through the struggle. And those that say the challenge is too great....they just need to step aside and follow. For "Without struggle there is no progress." - Frederick Douglas

Subject: Re: The Marijuana Debate Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:00 am

metrocop0826 wrote:

YoungstownRenegade wrote:: Yea, but just because it "doesn't affect positive change" people shouldn't be given the freedom to choose?....I'm sorry, I can't grasp that...cell phones, alcohol, cigarettes, soda, etc...these things don't affect positive change so we shouldn't have them...?....We're gonna have to deal with it weather it's legal or not, so wouldn't it be easier to legalize it...?

I say this all the time. Freedoms are privilages that are only lost to irresponsibility and ignorance. We as Americans sometimes do not know what to do with freedom. I see the behavior that pot causes and it's not like it makes people aggressive (unless it's laced) but it makes people apethetic. Apethy is more dangerous than aggression alot of times. That's the real harm in it. We as a human race could be contolled without laws and people did the right thing all the time than there would be no need for laws. But since we shown for thousands of years we can't be trusted with certain freedoms and we've failed to make hard decisions. Now since we see people being carefree and apethetic under the influence of marijuana we should really look before we leap when it concerns marijuana. Just like alcohol. The reason why prohibition ended really was because the government could not stop the mafia from selling alcohol. So we gave up and accepted failure. Until things start improving like the economy and education primarily....we need not worry about taking away inhibitons we need a nation of focused and motivated persons to get through the struggle. And those that say the challenge is too great....they just need to step aside and follow. For "Without struggle there is no progress." - Frederick Douglas

That right there bugs me....I think I must not be making my point clear enough...maybe that's my fault....let me try it this way....The word America(ns) should not even be in that sentence...this has nothing to do with America so to speak...what you should ask yourself is this...."As HUMAN BEINGS should we be denied freedoms?" That answer should be a resounding NO....People are looking at this the wrong way...when these politicians die they have to answer for taking away HUMAN BEINGS' freedoms, not Americans'....Do you wanna have to answer to your maker for being part of that? If so...that's your deal man and I'm not gonna knock ya persay for thinking that...but here's where Americans fuck up...we think freedoms are a gift from rich politicians and other Americans....WRONG!!!!!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!!!!!!! Freedoms are given to us by birth....the only thing the law should be concerned with is common sense shit like murder and burglary, things of that nature....HOW THE HELL DOES THIS FIT HIGH UP ON THE LIST OF THINGS TO DEAL WITH.....this should be decriminalized and forgot the fuck about...and if some jackass fucks up on it...HE GOES TO JAIL....the same as some jackass who fucks up NOT on it....That's the bottom line here....

Rant over (for now) Cool

Subject: Re: The Marijuana Debate Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:11 am

Twiztid's song Bagz preceded by their mini song chant Smoke Break

Subject: Re: The Marijuana Debate Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:12 am

Twiztid's song Hydro feat. Layzie Bone

Subject: Re: The Marijuana Debate Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:18 am

Hey, guys. I see both sides of this argument. I don't smoke pot. I tried one hit when I was 19...got sicker than a dog and haven't wanted to be near it since.

Studying Criminal Justice in college. We've had many a debate over marijuana. But, I am also a liscenced paramedic. I know cancer patients that will swear by it. I know the effects that it has on the body, but I also know what cigarettes and alcohol do to it, too.

I really think that a decriminalization would do a wonder of good. This is why. People will pay taxes on it. People will pay fines on it if they get busted (and seriously, they have to now, but how many of these people REALLY do?!).

They've taken cigarettes out of bars and restaurants. We are now not allowed to smoke on any hospital grounds, state grounds, college campuses, you name it. Hell, we lost our bingo parlors because the little old ladies wouldn't come anymore if they couldn't smoke.

We had a bar/restaraunt busted a couple of weeks ago for serving alcohol while minors were present. That bar lost their liscence for 3 months (and they postponed the closing until the busy months). The family came in for a pizza...it was the kids' parents the alcholol was served to.

All I'm saying is that from a standpoint of what you can and can't do nowadays with tobacco and alcohol, I'm not sure I see pot being much worse.

Subject: Re: The Marijuana Debate Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:22 am

Worx4Me wrote:: Hey, guys. I see both sides of this argument. I don't smoke pot. I tried one hit when I was 19...got sicker than a dog and haven't wanted to be near it since.

Studying Criminal Justice in college. We've had many a debate over marijuana. But, I am also a liscenced paramedic. I know cancer patients that will swear by it. I know the effects that it has on the body, but I also know what cigarettes and alcohol do to it, too.

I really think that a decriminalization would do a wonder of good. This is why. People will pay taxes on it. People will pay fines on it if they get busted (and seriously, they have to now, but how many of these people REALLY do?!).

They've taken cigarettes out of bars and restaurants. We are now not allowed to smoke on any hospital grounds, state grounds, college campuses, you name it. Hell, we lost our bingo parlors because the little old ladies wouldn't come anymore if they couldn't smoke.

We had a bar/restaraunt busted a couple of weeks ago for serving alcohol while minors were present. That bar lost their liscence for 3 months (and they postponed the closing until the busy months). The family came in for a pizza...it was the kids' parents the alcholol was served to.

All I'm saying is that from a standpoint of what you can and can't do nowadays with tobacco and alcohol, I'm not sure I see pot being much worse.

All good points

Subject: Re: The Marijuana Debate Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:27 am

I think you just want unconditional freedom because that's what you'd be getting in a sense with legallizing marijuana. Crime is bad now...it'll be worse when the #1 inhibitor blocker is legal. That's been my whole point. As far as being judged for taking someone's freedom away I do that everyday because they can't be trusted with it. And at the end of days if I'm judged for it so be it. I know that I've done the best I can to make this small peice of land known as Savannah, Ga as safe as possible for everyone that lives and visits here. I work hard to do that and I take alot of pride in it. If I've been brainwashed oh well. I know that what I'm doing....not alot of people are not willing to do...and they have their reasons but they have a right to their safety and security and to pursue happiness.

Subject: Re: The Marijuana Debate Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:32 am

Unconditional freedom is such a broad term....I guess I'm still failing to make my point....oh well...I know what I mean.....I just don't believe for one second that the legalization of marijuana will shoot the crime rate up, if anything it will bring it down IMO if only slightly.....It's not a point if people can be trusted or not with their freedom...whose decision is it that they can't be trusted?....This all reeks of power trip (NOT YOU - You just have an opinion and a job to do.....you're not the problem like you might think I'm making you out to be)....this reeks bad....JMO though...

Subject: Re: The Marijuana Debate Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:34 am

Well, I think we finally hit a topic that everyone has a strong opinion on weather or not it affects them directly....

Subject: Re: The Marijuana Debate Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:38 am

Worx4Me wrote:: Hey, guys. I see both sides of this argument. I don't smoke pot. I tried one hit when I was 19...got sicker than a dog and haven't wanted to be near it since.

Studying Criminal Justice in college. We've had many a debate over marijuana. But, I am also a liscenced paramedic. I know cancer patients that will swear by it. I know the effects that it has on the body, but I also know what cigarettes and alcohol do to it, too.

I really think that a decriminalization would do a wonder of good. This is why. People will pay taxes on it. People will pay fines on it if they get busted (and seriously, they have to now, but how many of these people REALLY do?!).

They've taken cigarettes out of bars and restaurants. We are now not allowed to smoke on any hospital grounds, state grounds, college campuses, you name it. Hell, we lost our bingo parlors because the little old ladies wouldn't come anymore if they couldn't smoke.

We had a bar/restaraunt busted a couple of weeks ago for serving alcohol while minors were present. That bar lost their liscence for 3 months (and they postponed the closing until the busy months). The family came in for a pizza...it was the kids' parents the alcholol was served to.

All I'm saying is that from a standpoint of what you can and can't do nowadays with tobacco and alcohol, I'm not sure I see pot being much worse.

If it's approved by the FDA as a perscription drug then sure why not....I'd be for that. But just to have a bunch of pothead running around just because....no sorry not for it. The problems it already causes are astronomical you don't see it because guys and gals like me arrest those that can't contol themselves. It's not a problem for an everyday citizen I understand what you all are saying. Another thing is that is if the FDA approves it as a persciption drug only there are stiffer penalties for possession of presciption drugs...most crimes of that nature are a felony. So in a sense...there would be ways to tighten the grip on it as well helping the people that really need marijuana. But to unconditionally legalize it and put in the hands of people that can't even control their behavior sober....no I don't think so.

Subject: Re: The Marijuana Debate Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:46 am

metrocop0826 wrote:: I think you just want unconditional freedom because that's what you'd be getting in a sense with legallizing marijuana. Crime is bad now...it'll be worse when the #1 inhibitor blocker is legal. That's been my whole point. As far as being judged for taking someone's freedom away I do that everyday because they can't be trusted with it. And at the end of days if I'm judged for it so be it. I know that I've done the best I can to make this small peice of land known as Savannah, Ga as safe as possible for everyone that lives and visits here. I work hard to do that and I take alot of pride in it. If I've been brainwashed oh well. I know that what I'm doing....not alot of people are not willing to do...and they have their reasons but they have a right to their safety and security and to pursue happiness.

Ima need to see some proof of this one...coz right now...I'm calling BULLSHIT....someone needs to prove to me that more Americans are under the influence of marijuana than that of alcohol....And are you gonna tell me that the skeevy stoners give you more of a hassle than the drunk off their ass boozers....somehow I doubt that...Some people just aren't making the alcohol connection here....Legalize marijuana and you stop the protests....and has anyone thought that just maybe a lot of people use pot STRICTLY because it's ileagal?....Rebel theory people....

Subject: Re: The Marijuana Debate Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:47 am

metrocop0826 wrote:: I think you just want unconditional freedom because that's what you'd be getting in a sense with legallizing marijuana. Crime is bad now...it'll be worse when the #1 inhibitor blocker is legal. That's been my whole point. As far as being judged for taking someone's freedom away I do that everyday because they can't be trusted with it. And at the end of days if I'm judged for it so be it. I know that I've done the best I can to make this small peice of land known as Savannah, Ga as safe as possible for everyone that lives and visits here. I work hard to do that and I take alot of pride in it. If I've been brainwashed oh well. I know that what I'm doing....not alot of people are not willing to do...and they have their reasons but they have a right to their safety and security and to pursue happiness.

I wouldn't say unconditional freedom, Metro. I'm actually kind of on your side, although I'm playing bad cop right now. I don't think anything positive would come out of decriminalizing marijuana, but I really don't see the positives of alcohol decriminalization, either. All that did was slow down the bootleggers. Maybe this would keep down the dealers. I don't know.

As somebody eventually getting into law enforcement, I know that I'll have to pick up some people for this (not much in my state, though). I know for a fact that I will have to pick up 5 times the same amount of people for alcohol related incidents.

Now: I make my own homeade wine every year with different fruits and flowers. I go to the bar on occasion (but I only live 3 blocks away and can walk home.)
I HAVE been picked up (and let off on) a DUI charge after drinking 2 beers. I look at my friends in the guard that smoke pot and wonder what the equivilant of my 2 beers in joints would have been. (By the way, I wasn't driving recklessly, somebody ran a corner and it was icy...I couldn't stop although I only hit her pickup at about 2 mph, according to the sheriff's report.)

All I'm doing is heating up (or trying to) the debate so that I can actually get a better feel of what the heck the difference is between alcohol and marijuana. I know the brain's effects. I wanna know what makes marijuana so much worse than alcohol (and remember, I don't use...)

Subject: Re: The Marijuana Debate Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:49 am

Oops...edit: I don't want to unconditionally legalize it. I want to decriminalize it. There's a big difference, and I know you know that, but I'd still want conditions. Not just a bunch of pot heads running around because they couldn't control it, but at the same time, we have alcoholics running around because of the very same thing.

I know this is probably a one sided link, but I looked up all the studies, and here it is:

SAFER Link